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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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for the fourth of january 2014 oh my

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goodness me the skeptic zone has now

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been heard in 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012

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2013 2014 7 different years how

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ridiculous is that I hope we have a fine

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year ahead of skeptical activities to

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kick off this year an extended interview

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with Jeannie Scott from the National

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Center for Science Education in Oakland

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who is just on the cusp the verge of

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retiring this is the last interview with

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Jeannie before her retirement i SAT with

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her in her office which is basically

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almost packed up in lots of boxes by now

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so a catch up with Jeannie Scott coming

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up at the top of the show also on this

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week's show a special from the Royal

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Institution of Australia with robert

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Llewellyn being a sort of a guest

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interviewer talking about electric cars

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also I visit Google the Google

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headquarters have a quick chat to a

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skeptic zone listen to chris who works

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at google is very kind to her host a

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little too great fun and not forgetting

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maynard spooky action maynard talks to

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code breaker dr. steve roberts from the

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Victorian skeptics and poet laureate

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Shelley who was a waxing lyrical at the

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National Convention happy birthday to

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Iran sir give Brian Dunning Anna Linda

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Brown who all hit milestones actually

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Brian didn't I don't think he could ever

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hit a milestone if he tried around it'll

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Linda hit a milestone and Brian and well

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Brian and I have when we're getting

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there folks we're getting there but

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happy birthday to all those wonderful

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skeptics well I better race downstairs

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and well pack actually because I not too

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many hours I'll be heading off to the

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airport to fly back to Sydney Australia

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from the San Francisco Bay Area so while

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I am busily sorting up my socks from my

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shirts and from my bits and pieces I

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at the office of the National Center for

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Science Education one last time Eugenie

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Scott well no I don't know I I hope you

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come back to the NCSC again and next

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time you interview and read who will be

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the new executive director of NCS am

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about well let's see the sixth of

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January not far off not far off well I

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mean I've been coming here to visit you

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in this very office now but I guess it

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must be ten years at least yeah yeah I

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would there was a photograph of you and

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I just over past that window out there

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when all the skulls was right and I was

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looking at it the other day and I forgot

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to note the year but i can tell you my

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hair's a lot darker in that photograph I

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have fewer wrinkles and yes we were both

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younger but but but think of how much

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we've learned in the intervening here as

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true so much wiser and more

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knowledgeable even if grayer and more

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wrinkled yeah yeah you take the bitter

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with the sweet on this right you have to

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it's we're sitting in what will soon be

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your former office you've been busily

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taking down all the wonderful things off

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the wall and things are in boxes and

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you're doing the big passing of the

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button on it I am I am tomorrow I will

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be doing the spackling of the walls now

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an is coming in monday next week and

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we'll have a week of overlap of

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orientation sort of giving her the big

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picture obviously i mean the the NCSE

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programs staff will really be the people

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who won't be orienting her yeah for what

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we do around here and what our current

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projects are and what they're working on

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and you know where what the future will

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be the support staff will orient her in

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terms of how we do the financial stuff

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and now we keep track of the wonderful

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donations we get from people and

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budgetary things and so forth so and

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then obviously I'll be more than happy

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to be on call if she wants to has any

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additional quitting calls from not just

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an but staff Glenn isn't here do you

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know where I can find me I mean I have

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been here for a really long time yeah

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yeah and I think Glen William but when

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you say here you don't mean physically

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see how long is in CSV being in here no

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plan Oh probably about 10 or 12 years my

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bad yeah so in this office but it's

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really good to move every once in a

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while because you do pair of things down

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but what you have to don't you yeah

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we've done pretty well are our archivist

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Charles Hargrove our archivists does a

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wonderful job and kind of keeping track

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of the things that need to be saved and

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dispensing with the items that we can

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find elsewhere but just to remind your

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listeners we have wonderful archives

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here in fact we have had Australian

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scholars come to work on our archives

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who are interested in studying it's the

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room around the corner is the big yes

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yes yeah the library and archives we've

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got a wonderful stuff in fact my first

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job my first task after retiring well

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let me preface that my very first job

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after retiring will be to spend a couple

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months just puttering around my house

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which I will enjoy doing thoroughly all

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the projects that kind of got delayed

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justification for working on but after a

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couple of months after an settles in and

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you know the new routines get developed

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which is always necessary in any major

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transition like this I plan to come back

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and work in the archives and the first

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thing I'm going to do the first thing I

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would like to do is to write the really

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definitive history of NCSE I was part of

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this history but with our archives I I

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can really do it from the scholar

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I don't have to just remember up what's

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that nineteen eighty or was that 1979 i

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mean i can actually document what went

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on and i think that's going to be a

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really fun experience for me yeah i'm

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really looking forward to that so i'm

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going to spend to what end to what do

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you what will this be for a book just

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for the records all of the above

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nonsense it's something that needs to be

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done and i think i can do it better than

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then most considering i have not just my

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own memories and contacts but also these

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wonderful archives that we have here

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this is an important organization it's

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been around for 30 years plus and it's

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very easy for early records to get lost

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or to get forgotten or to get misplaced

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or to be promised to end up in some sort

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of an archive and then that really

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happen we have managed to get archives

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from a number of early board members a

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number of people who are very active in

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the creation and evolution controversy

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back in the 70s and 80s and those

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materials are wonderful i bet they are

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but how how things have changed over the

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years from the creation is going to view

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huh yeah very much I mean that there's

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been a huge evolution in creation let's

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face it no I mean they they have gone

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through except there's been this there's

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been this wonderful structural

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continuity at the same time you know

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it's it's like vertebrates vertebrates

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appeared with it with a sort of basic

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you know vertebrate four-on-the-floor

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kind of body plan yeah back in the late

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cretaceous early seneca cenozoic and

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there have been all these variations on

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that theme well you know ultimately the

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body plan of creationism is special

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creation that God specially created he

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poofed things into existence now with

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the with the young earth creationist

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like your beloved Ken Ham exported to us

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that's right I've forgiven you thank you

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very much well we've had a lot of

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American imports early as I

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promise you that I mean where was the

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mind poisoned I mean but young earth

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creationist like Ken Ham take a very

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strict special creation point of view

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that God really proved everything into

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existence and basically one step so it's

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just over six days but the really short

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days so there was an awful lot of

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special creation of planets and galaxies

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and the whole shooting match and plans

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announced and the intelligent design

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people have kind of shifted their focus

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a bit most of them aren't special

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creationists and quite the same fashion

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but they are special creations to agree

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but they generally are focusing on god

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having to specially create the micro

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universe so to speak God doesn't have to

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specially create a whole galaxy but God

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does have two specially create the

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bacterial flagellum so it sort of seems

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like a concentration problem to me I

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mean but it's also it's interesting

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these people I guess people have been

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doing this for the millennia seems to

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know the mind of God so well yeah it's a

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it's not a very it's not a very modest

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proposal isn't it sits in fact non

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biblical literalist Christians really

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considered that the ultimate of hubris

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they they they believed in a much more

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powerful God and in my conversations

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with them not one that has to be there

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candid with his biomolecular screwdriver

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fine-tuning a propeller yeah on a

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flagellum somehow this seems a little

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excessive but actually we had a we had a

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cover or the cover of the next issue of

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reports of NC SC that's coming out has

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as a cartoon of exactly that very point

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yeah you will you will receive it

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shortly I assume but it's a you know

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it's God standing there you may be

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standing on a cloud I'm not too sure but

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he's saying something like oh yes I

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created you know a hundred billion

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galaxies by natural causes but I had

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just

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actually create the bacteria that's good

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that's what can I say what are you going

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to miss I mean you can play colleague to

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colleague w guy aren't doing your chores

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at home but yeah I'm little known fact I

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really am a homebody I really like I

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really like you know cooking meals for

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people I like I could vouch for that I

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like gardening I like just making things

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work around the house and yeah I mean

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you know you've met my husband he's not

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he's disabled he's not really capable of

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doing a lot of the things that he

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previously did so those have fallen to

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me yeah and I've actually overcome a

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great deal of my fear of things like

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screwdrivers and electric drills and

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things like that and I'm coping

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remarkably well yeah but I'm a whole lot

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better with with kitchen tools than with

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carpentry tools just me but no I'll miss

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I'm just not seeing these people every

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day right because that's been a real

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treat I mean you know I get up in the

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morning and I look forward to coming to

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work mostly not just because the work is

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interesting but because the people I

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work with are just so super one of the

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things I think that you may miss or may

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not is in your position you've certainly

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done a lot of traffic my goodness me

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you've been around the world and around

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this country many times do you is that

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for you still a treat or is that sure

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you know the best thing about traveling

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is being there I mean it's the people

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that I meet the people that I see I have

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00:13:12,700 --> 00:13:09,440
always been treated just wonderfully by

272
00:13:15,070 --> 00:13:12,710
my hosts they always make it you know

273
00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:15,080
much more of us than me but but you know

274
00:13:18,700 --> 00:13:17,120
I've always been greeted very warmly and

275
00:13:21,010 --> 00:13:18,710
my ideas have been appreciated and

276
00:13:23,830 --> 00:13:21,020
that's great that's great I'm still

277
00:13:27,550 --> 00:13:23,840
going to continue traveling i'm still

278
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:27,560
going to continue speaking the

279
00:13:33,540 --> 00:13:30,530
difference is that I I will be trying to

280
00:13:36,090 --> 00:13:33,550
pass well I have been trying for the

281
00:13:38,730 --> 00:13:36,100
several years really to try to pass more

282
00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:38,740
invitations on to my staff because they

283
00:13:43,759 --> 00:13:40,720
are very good they should be recognized

284
00:13:46,199 --> 00:13:43,769
for their abilities and also because I

285
00:13:48,860 --> 00:13:46,209
you know I mean I still have some shelf

286
00:13:52,230 --> 00:13:48,870
life available to me for a while but

287
00:13:54,090 --> 00:13:52,240
yeah there will come a time when they're

288
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:54,100
going to be much better versed in what's

289
00:13:58,259 --> 00:13:56,410
going on then I cuz they're here it must

290
00:14:00,569 --> 00:13:58,269
happen that's I guess it might happen

291
00:14:02,940 --> 00:14:00,579
I'm okay with it yeah you know yeah I

292
00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:02,950
can see a point because unless you're

293
00:14:06,389 --> 00:14:04,570
here on the front line as it was there

294
00:14:08,850 --> 00:14:06,399
gonna be news items and things that you

295
00:14:10,410 --> 00:14:08,860
you just can't keep up and you know that

296
00:14:13,050 --> 00:14:10,420
the flare-ups that we deal with a lot of

297
00:14:16,590 --> 00:14:13,060
those never do see the light of day I

298
00:14:19,980 --> 00:14:16,600
mean obviously I'll you know I I put too

299
00:14:21,870 --> 00:14:19,990
much into this organization to just

300
00:14:24,420 --> 00:14:21,880
abandon it I'm obviously going to help

301
00:14:28,079 --> 00:14:24,430
out however I can to you know keep the

302
00:14:29,850 --> 00:14:28,089
organization strong and doing well but a

303
00:14:31,319 --> 00:14:29,860
lot of the you know a lot of the travel

304
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:31,329
a lot of the speaking that I've been

305
00:14:36,509 --> 00:14:33,610
doing on behalf of in CSC is going to

306
00:14:39,420 --> 00:14:36,519
diminish yeah but i still have my

307
00:14:42,300 --> 00:14:39,430
interest in the skeptics you know i

308
00:14:46,889 --> 00:14:42,310
still have I'm still in a couple of

309
00:14:49,139 --> 00:14:46,899
boards that require me to travel I've

310
00:14:51,900 --> 00:14:49,149
been fairly careful and not accepting

311
00:14:55,829 --> 00:14:51,910
some invitations to serve on boards and

312
00:14:57,930 --> 00:14:55,839
things because I I really do want I want

313
00:14:59,639 --> 00:14:57,940
to kind of stand back for six months or

314
00:15:03,210 --> 00:14:59,649
so and say okay you know what do I want

315
00:15:08,550 --> 00:15:03,220
to do when I grow up yeah where do I go

316
00:15:11,730 --> 00:15:08,560
from here and I I think I i will

317
00:15:15,090 --> 00:15:11,740
probably spend more time with with the

318
00:15:19,380 --> 00:15:15,100
skeptics movements because it in one

319
00:15:21,180 --> 00:15:19,390
sense it's kind of the root of most of

320
00:15:22,710 --> 00:15:21,190
what I've been doing I guess says I

321
00:15:24,990 --> 00:15:22,720
guess it's a straight up like

322
00:15:27,630 --> 00:15:25,000
understanding changes yeah yeah because

323
00:15:29,610 --> 00:15:27,640
it's everything and sometimes it can

324
00:15:30,810 --> 00:15:29,620
feel a little overwhelming we have an

325
00:15:32,130 --> 00:15:30,820
interesting list on the Australian

326
00:15:37,519 --> 00:15:32,140
skeptics website of things we're

327
00:15:40,079 --> 00:15:37,529
skeptical of Etsy its extensive and uh

328
00:15:41,850 --> 00:15:40,089
you can't know it all and you can't

329
00:15:44,819 --> 00:15:41,860
specialize in

330
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:44,829
and I specialized in one area yes yeah

331
00:15:50,850 --> 00:15:47,890
and I'm pretty good at it other people

332
00:15:52,319 --> 00:15:50,860
also are very good at this this area but

333
00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:52,329
it's not that I'm going to suddenly

334
00:15:56,460 --> 00:15:54,160
become a Bigfoot specialist or something

335
00:15:59,250 --> 00:15:56,470
like that what I really want to do

336
00:16:00,900 --> 00:15:59,260
whatever yeah I big foots cray I'm a

337
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:00,910
physical anthropologist of course I'm

338
00:16:06,930 --> 00:16:02,290
going to be of course I'm gonna love

339
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:06,940
Bigfoot can't can't turn Lewis um but

340
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:09,610
but it's really the public understanding

341
00:16:14,690 --> 00:16:12,370
of science it's really helping people

342
00:16:18,030 --> 00:16:14,700
understand science as a way of knowing

343
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:18,040
why it is such a unique and valuable way

344
00:16:24,810 --> 00:16:21,370
of knowing and quite frankly why it is

345
00:16:29,699 --> 00:16:24,820
not a philosophy of life yeah i'm also a

346
00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:29,709
humanist and I'm a after a while I may

347
00:16:35,310 --> 00:16:31,839
be speaking more about some of my

348
00:16:37,710 --> 00:16:35,320
personal views I have avoided that as a

349
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:37,720
as the director of NCIC because it's

350
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:40,690
confusing to people there's been enough

351
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:42,970
confusion already with the fact that we

352
00:16:49,500 --> 00:16:45,730
deal with evolution and the assumption

353
00:16:52,740 --> 00:16:49,510
on some by some parties that therefore

354
00:16:55,530 --> 00:16:52,750
we must therefore be a bunch of atheists

355
00:16:57,960 --> 00:16:55,540
and you know and so I've had to work

356
00:17:01,110 --> 00:16:57,970
very hard at combating that and it's a

357
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:01,120
constant struggle that will continue and

358
00:17:04,650 --> 00:17:02,890
of course it's it's nonsense because we

359
00:17:06,900 --> 00:17:04,660
are not officially any kind of

360
00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:06,910
ideologically based organization except

361
00:17:13,020 --> 00:17:11,049
one that you know has the ideology that

362
00:17:13,919 --> 00:17:13,030
people should know science but I don't

363
00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:13,929
think that's going to be too

364
00:17:19,169 --> 00:17:15,850
objectionable by anyone well I hope not

365
00:17:20,939 --> 00:17:19,179
I mean our members are people who are

366
00:17:24,689 --> 00:17:20,949
believers and or not believers and

367
00:17:26,309 --> 00:17:24,699
people who don't care our staff consists

368
00:17:27,659 --> 00:17:26,319
of people who are believers people who

369
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:27,669
are not believers and people who don't

370
00:17:33,990 --> 00:17:31,450
care and as far as what we do here we

371
00:17:37,020 --> 00:17:34,000
promote good science and good science

372
00:17:40,380 --> 00:17:37,030
education evolution and also the climate

373
00:17:44,340 --> 00:17:40,390
change issue yeah yeah and you know

374
00:17:48,409 --> 00:17:44,350
whatever personal opinions we have as

375
00:17:51,310 --> 00:17:48,419
individuals at ncsu staff or members

376
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:51,320
they you know we are all united

377
00:17:57,669 --> 00:17:55,970
in in that bigger picture of how do we

378
00:17:59,620 --> 00:17:57,679
get the public to understand science

379
00:18:03,340 --> 00:17:59,630
understand evolution understand climate

380
00:18:05,889 --> 00:18:03,350
change and not object to good science

381
00:18:07,659 --> 00:18:05,899
being taught to their kids and that's

382
00:18:10,269 --> 00:18:07,669
really what you do around here yeah

383
00:18:12,669 --> 00:18:10,279
because over the years it's been an

384
00:18:16,269 --> 00:18:12,679
interesting it is such an interesting

385
00:18:18,669 --> 00:18:16,279
story and I'm sure in many years to come

386
00:18:21,759 --> 00:18:18,679
it'll be one of the classic studies of

387
00:18:24,249 --> 00:18:21,769
science this whole creation is all yeah

388
00:18:29,769 --> 00:18:24,259
I think in this country especially I

389
00:18:32,169 --> 00:18:29,779
think specially and its export now that

390
00:18:33,779 --> 00:18:32,179
I see some sort of pole in the media

391
00:18:36,340 --> 00:18:33,789
just the other day about the number of

392
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:36,350
now I remember if it's number Americans

393
00:18:41,379 --> 00:18:38,330
or the number of Republicans who do both

394
00:18:43,749 --> 00:18:41,389
that was a new pupil yeah we posted it

395
00:18:49,450 --> 00:18:43,759
on our website that's why might a ported

396
00:18:53,649 --> 00:18:49,460
there and it it pretty much tracks the

397
00:18:57,580 --> 00:18:53,659
last pew and everybody else's poll of I

398
00:19:01,539 --> 00:18:57,590
think four or five years ago Americans

399
00:19:04,259 --> 00:19:01,549
have a high percentage of citizens who

400
00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:04,269
don't accept evolution certainly and

401
00:19:10,570 --> 00:19:07,129
Republicans reject evolution at higher

402
00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:10,580
levels than do Democrats it mainstream

403
00:19:15,879 --> 00:19:13,370
Christians accept evolution at a much

404
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:15,889
higher level than do conservative

405
00:19:21,419 --> 00:19:17,690
Christians I mean there's all sorts of

406
00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:21,429
these subdivisions but overall the

407
00:19:28,749 --> 00:19:24,799
percentages of Americans who reject

408
00:19:32,379 --> 00:19:28,759
evolution is surprisingly high still

409
00:19:33,879 --> 00:19:32,389
yeah well as it very much over the user

410
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:33,889
does it mean more or less consistent

411
00:19:37,570 --> 00:19:35,690
it's been pretty consistent it's been

412
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:37,580
pretty much goes up a little bit goes

413
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:39,970
down a little bit kind of within the the

414
00:19:45,369 --> 00:19:43,370
it's amazing staying power hasn't it

415
00:19:47,409 --> 00:19:45,379
when you think about it as we progress

416
00:19:50,049 --> 00:19:47,419
through the years and science marches on

417
00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:50,059
and it's all the things that are

418
00:19:57,539 --> 00:19:52,370
discovered about evolution yeah yeah and

419
00:19:59,950 --> 00:19:57,549
yet is it isn't that a lot of people

420
00:20:01,840 --> 00:19:59,960
after all your experience you must have

421
00:20:02,750 --> 00:20:01,850
an inkling isn't distasteful for a lot

422
00:20:07,020 --> 00:20:02,760
of people

423
00:20:09,210 --> 00:20:07,030
part of the problem is the structure of

424
00:20:13,650 --> 00:20:09,220
religion in the u.s. a much higher

425
00:20:18,210 --> 00:20:13,660
degree of adherence to religion than in

426
00:20:20,370 --> 00:20:18,220
Europe say Australia is close but you

427
00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:20,380
have fewer lower percentage of people

428
00:20:24,570 --> 00:20:23,110
who identify themselves as religious but

429
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:24,580
it's the structure more than anything

430
00:20:29,159 --> 00:20:26,650
else not just the number not just the

431
00:20:31,380 --> 00:20:29,169
percentage America has a much more

432
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:31,390
conservative kind of Christianity in

433
00:20:35,250 --> 00:20:33,250
general and in a much higher proportion

434
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:35,260
of American Christians are conservative

435
00:20:39,350 --> 00:20:36,970
Christians than you find elsewhere hmm

436
00:20:42,780 --> 00:20:39,360
after all it was in this country that

437
00:20:45,060 --> 00:20:42,790
new with its entrepreneurial spirit goes

438
00:20:47,580 --> 00:20:45,070
to religions as well there's an awful

439
00:20:49,409 --> 00:20:47,590
lot of conservative religions religious

440
00:20:51,860 --> 00:20:49,419
denominations that were founded here

441
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:51,870
including the you know the general

442
00:21:01,470 --> 00:20:56,650
fundamentalist strain of Christianity

443
00:21:03,530 --> 00:21:01,480
but also charismatic so various kinds

444
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:03,540
Pentecostal this of various kinds

445
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:08,650
Jehovah's Witnesses notice the list goes

446
00:21:15,890 --> 00:21:11,650
on not and those tend to be more more

447
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:15,900
biblically based and that is the problem

448
00:21:21,030 --> 00:21:18,490
we have a more conservative form of

449
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:21,040
America of Christianity in the United

450
00:21:28,830 --> 00:21:24,850
States but we also don't do that great a

451
00:21:31,860 --> 00:21:28,840
job in teaching evolution and so you

452
00:21:35,100 --> 00:21:31,870
know if evolution is is just given kind

453
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:35,110
of a little once over or not spoken of

454
00:21:44,610 --> 00:21:39,850
it all and and the did the strength of

455
00:21:46,350 --> 00:21:44,620
evolution as the foundation for biology

456
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:46,360
and geology if that's not clearly

457
00:21:53,100 --> 00:21:51,370
confirmed akita to students and the high

458
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:53,110
proportion of them come into the class

459
00:22:00,000 --> 00:21:57,010
already with the idea that there's

460
00:22:02,669 --> 00:22:00,010
something you know if I accept evolution

461
00:22:05,940 --> 00:22:02,679
I'm going to lose really big yes it's

462
00:22:08,940 --> 00:22:05,950
yet a surprise they will find that you

463
00:22:10,649 --> 00:22:08,950
find not very many people accepting

464
00:22:12,690 --> 00:22:10,659
evolution interesting is that that that

465
00:22:17,550 --> 00:22:12,700
almost it's a black male

466
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:17,560
way well it's it's it's not just

467
00:22:22,290 --> 00:22:20,290
blackmail I mean it's it's the

468
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:22,300
expectation that you would have whatever

469
00:22:27,930 --> 00:22:25,690
your ideology I mean you know religion

470
00:22:32,610 --> 00:22:27,940
as a type of ideology politics is a type

471
00:22:35,310 --> 00:22:32,620
of ideology economics can be ideological

472
00:22:38,670 --> 00:22:35,320
as well one thing we found with the

473
00:22:45,090 --> 00:22:38,680
climate change situation is that people

474
00:22:48,780 --> 00:22:45,100
who believe that if global warming is

475
00:22:50,430 --> 00:22:48,790
actually taking place that means that

476
00:22:51,930 --> 00:22:50,440
the government is going to be given more

477
00:22:54,450 --> 00:22:51,940
power there's going to be more

478
00:22:56,010 --> 00:22:54,460
centralization of government it's going

479
00:22:59,520 --> 00:22:56,020
to impinge upon American individualism

480
00:23:02,250 --> 00:22:59,530
and yeah there they have an ideological

481
00:23:04,380 --> 00:23:02,260
reason to a to reject languages well

482
00:23:06,030 --> 00:23:04,390
there's a huge I've just been looking at

483
00:23:09,540 --> 00:23:06,040
the papers recently from Australia and

484
00:23:12,180 --> 00:23:09,550
there's this huge debate my guess is a

485
00:23:13,890 --> 00:23:12,190
huge debate about some economic advisor

486
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:13,900
coming in the papers and saying how

487
00:23:18,990 --> 00:23:15,610
climate change and then we've been old

488
00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:19,000
off elder ransom about it and it's you

489
00:23:23,670 --> 00:23:21,130
know social ruin an economic route and

490
00:23:25,610 --> 00:23:23,680
you've heard about this this trip to the

491
00:23:28,350 --> 00:23:25,620
Antarctic that was young in the ice and

492
00:23:30,270 --> 00:23:28,360
I was listening to some radio from back

493
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:30,280
home and the announcers crowing saying

494
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:31,930
are these foolish scientists went down

495
00:23:35,610 --> 00:23:33,370
there to check on climate change they've

496
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:35,620
got frozen in the ice you know the eyes

497
00:23:41,580 --> 00:23:37,690
therefore therefore the Ice Age is

498
00:23:45,570 --> 00:23:41,590
coming more fool them you know people

499
00:23:48,170 --> 00:23:45,580
really don't get it you're about about

500
00:23:51,300 --> 00:23:48,180
the southern hemisphere so we see

501
00:23:53,250 --> 00:23:51,310
there's two kinds of ice in the South

502
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:53,260
Pole there's the land ice and there's

503
00:23:59,850 --> 00:23:55,210
the sea ice they don't behave the same

504
00:24:01,710 --> 00:23:59,860
the land ice is melting like crazy the

505
00:24:04,530 --> 00:24:01,720
sea ice is actually increasing slightly

506
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:04,540
and if you only focus on the sea ice and

507
00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:06,610
that on the reason why the sea ice is

508
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:08,080
increasing you're going to miss the

509
00:24:12,330 --> 00:24:10,810
point and of course the anti global

510
00:24:15,090 --> 00:24:12,340
warming people aren't for doing

511
00:24:17,250 --> 00:24:15,100
precisely that but what's happening with

512
00:24:20,940 --> 00:24:17,260
the sea ice and the reason why it's

513
00:24:23,100 --> 00:24:20,950
building up is actually partly a result

514
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:23,110
of the melting of the land lies ice

515
00:24:26,190 --> 00:24:24,850
because the land ice is of course

516
00:24:29,580 --> 00:24:26,200
freshwater

517
00:24:32,250 --> 00:24:29,590
densities they mix differently they have

518
00:24:36,060 --> 00:24:32,260
different temperatures and you're

519
00:24:40,860 --> 00:24:36,070
getting a that plus the the currents and

520
00:24:44,070 --> 00:24:40,870
the winds in the polar region influence

521
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:44,080
the building up the stacking ice the

522
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:46,570
stacking up of the sea ice and then that

523
00:24:53,910 --> 00:24:51,850
of course exposes more surface of the

524
00:24:56,220 --> 00:24:53,920
water which then freezes and then gets

525
00:24:58,770 --> 00:24:56,230
blown up and so it looks like the sea

526
00:25:02,700 --> 00:24:58,780
ice is actually building up but actually

527
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:02,710
the whole area is is severely melting in

528
00:25:09,210 --> 00:25:05,890
the land ice that the big Antarctic ice

529
00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:09,220
sheets are melting very very quickly not

530
00:25:14,430 --> 00:25:12,130
quite as fast is the polar ice cap the

531
00:25:17,790 --> 00:25:14,440
North Pole which is even more stunning

532
00:25:19,830 --> 00:25:17,800
in its in its changes no it'sit's I've

533
00:25:22,290 --> 00:25:19,840
read some of the same new denialist oh

534
00:25:25,010 --> 00:25:22,300
yes giggling oh it's so easy they got

535
00:25:28,110 --> 00:25:25,020
caught it's so easy for them to do and

536
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:28,120
it's irrelevant and that it is like that

537
00:25:33,330 --> 00:25:30,970
made this huge point and the silly

538
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:33,340
scientists look with we want their so

539
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:37,330
embarrassed down there it's it's I guess

540
00:25:43,950 --> 00:25:40,510
it's it's reflected having the two areas

541
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:43,960
that the NCSE are involved with crazy

542
00:25:48,780 --> 00:25:45,610
mirrors of each other and we're not

543
00:25:51,060 --> 00:25:48,790
exactly yeah yeah but you know that the

544
00:25:53,100 --> 00:25:51,070
you're you're talking about the article

545
00:25:58,230 --> 00:25:53,110
or the news report that you heard about

546
00:26:01,980 --> 00:25:58,240
the climate change critic crowing about

547
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:01,990
the the scientists tiny ice spin is

548
00:26:08,070 --> 00:26:04,570
everything you know you can take the

549
00:26:10,530 --> 00:26:08,080
same event the same evidence and you

550
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:10,540
spin it according to whatever your

551
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:13,530
ideological presupposition is there and

552
00:26:21,990 --> 00:26:19,570
you can make political hay this is the

553
00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:22,000
actual science that undergirds all of

554
00:26:28,380 --> 00:26:24,640
these claims is actually very clear and

555
00:26:32,940 --> 00:26:28,390
it's very alarming actually and it's

556
00:26:36,510 --> 00:26:32,950
it's not questionable I was um were

557
00:26:38,300 --> 00:26:36,520
we're taping this in january 2014 and in

558
00:26:40,610 --> 00:26:38,310
February of 2014

559
00:26:43,490 --> 00:26:40,620
bill nye the science guy was a very

560
00:26:45,470 --> 00:26:43,500
popular entertainer here and science

561
00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:45,480
communicator used to have a kids show

562
00:26:51,650 --> 00:26:47,910
for many years you probably can get it

563
00:26:53,630 --> 00:26:51,660
on various kinds of international

564
00:26:55,490 --> 00:26:53,640
sources bill not science guy you're

565
00:26:57,860 --> 00:26:55,500
probably familiar with it as well I make

566
00:27:00,170 --> 00:26:57,870
bill a couple years back and it is

567
00:27:02,330 --> 00:27:00,180
heaven knows where he's very keen out

568
00:27:04,250 --> 00:27:02,340
with skeptics activities so he's been to

569
00:27:06,110 --> 00:27:04,260
a number of skeptics programs I told him

570
00:27:07,850 --> 00:27:06,120
the PAL balanced riggs excellent oh very

571
00:27:10,670 --> 00:27:07,860
good yep it does it he should credit

572
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:10,680
Mason dancing and this is something I

573
00:27:17,750 --> 00:27:13,530
learned from the Australians okay but

574
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:17,760
bill is scheduled to debate our beloved

575
00:27:23,540 --> 00:27:20,490
ken ham Karen han and that's going to

576
00:27:28,250 --> 00:27:23,550
take place in February as scheduled and

577
00:27:33,860 --> 00:27:28,260
I was looking at a video tape that was

578
00:27:36,020 --> 00:27:33,870
online of Bill Nye debating one of the

579
00:27:39,410 --> 00:27:36,030
climate change denier people earlier and

580
00:27:41,510 --> 00:27:39,420
boy talk about the Gish Gallup the

581
00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:41,520
climate the climate game anyway he was

582
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:43,200
doing a gift Gallup which of course is a

583
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:45,330
phrase that we use to describe how

584
00:27:50,510 --> 00:27:47,930
creationists debate by throwing out

585
00:27:53,030 --> 00:27:50,520
factoids after factoids after factoid

586
00:27:55,250 --> 00:27:53,040
most of which have some sort of grain of

587
00:28:00,140 --> 00:27:55,260
truth but piled higher and higher and

588
00:28:03,050 --> 00:28:00,150
higher produce the spin that evolution

589
00:28:05,150 --> 00:28:03,060
is terrible science even though each of

590
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:05,160
these claims can be refuted and have

591
00:28:10,010 --> 00:28:06,690
been reviewed and I have been long

592
00:28:12,170 --> 00:28:10,020
refuted and their distortions of the

593
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:12,180
science in most cases anyway well that

594
00:28:17,270 --> 00:28:14,850
was the same that this climate science

595
00:28:22,690 --> 00:28:17,280
denial was doing he was tossing out this

596
00:28:27,170 --> 00:28:22,700
idea that it hasn't warmed in 15 years

597
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:27,180
if you measure from 1998 to the present

598
00:28:32,690 --> 00:28:29,850
there's a there's a slight decline in

599
00:28:35,900 --> 00:28:32,700
temperature because 1998 was the super

600
00:28:39,110 --> 00:28:35,910
El Nino year and it was it was just

601
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:39,120
unusually unusually warm el nene

602
00:28:45,140 --> 00:28:43,050
apartment and so they cherry pick that

603
00:28:46,610 --> 00:28:45,150
particular little statistic and then

604
00:28:49,460 --> 00:28:46,620
everything of course looks like it's

605
00:28:51,650 --> 00:28:49,470
regular whereas if you actually look at

606
00:28:53,930 --> 00:28:51,660
the trend if you actually plot the

607
00:28:56,570 --> 00:28:53,940
pitchers across the last 30 years it's

608
00:28:59,120 --> 00:28:56,580
clear that the line is going up it's

609
00:29:01,790 --> 00:28:59,130
gone straight up but if you only cherry

610
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:01,800
pick that one little 1998 date and look

611
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:05,760
at it reference to the present oh look

612
00:29:09,380 --> 00:29:07,770
we have a plateau well you can find

613
00:29:11,540 --> 00:29:09,390
plateaus all the way through that

614
00:29:13,790 --> 00:29:11,550
30-year segment but that doesn't mean

615
00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:13,800
that that it's the services aren't

616
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:16,320
getting warmer what what would it take

617
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:23,730
to to sway them just going to have to be

618
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:26,010
the evidence around them but we might

619
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:28,320
have to say about the creationist could

620
00:29:32,450 --> 00:29:31,170
we not at all yeah if you think you're

621
00:29:35,150 --> 00:29:32,460
going to solve the climate change

622
00:29:38,180 --> 00:29:35,160
problem by shoveling more science at it

623
00:29:40,460 --> 00:29:38,190
you don't understand the problem it's

624
00:29:43,940 --> 00:29:40,470
like we were talking about earlier the

625
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:43,950
reason why people reject good science of

626
00:29:50,690 --> 00:29:45,690
evolution good science of climate change

627
00:29:53,300 --> 00:29:50,700
is because of their ideologies if

628
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:53,310
evolution is true if climate change is

629
00:29:57,500 --> 00:29:55,530
true in some fashion rather they lose

630
00:29:59,810 --> 00:29:57,510
big so if you're going to persuade

631
00:30:02,750 --> 00:29:59,820
somebody you have to first assuage that

632
00:30:05,660 --> 00:30:02,760
concern you have to make that person

633
00:30:08,660 --> 00:30:05,670
feel comfortable okay if evolution is

634
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:08,670
true maybe I won't lose big okay what's

635
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:11,850
the evidence and we've tried to do that

636
00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:16,320
for 30 years at NCSE by accurately

637
00:30:21,290 --> 00:30:18,510
pointing out the fact that not all

638
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:21,300
Christians you know look at evolution as

639
00:30:25,340 --> 00:30:23,850
the enemy many of manage to integrate it

640
00:30:27,740 --> 00:30:25,350
into their theology similarly with

641
00:30:31,430 --> 00:30:27,750
climate change if you can help assuage

642
00:30:34,250 --> 00:30:31,440
this concern that somehow I'm going to

643
00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:34,260
lose my individual American freedoms

644
00:30:42,290 --> 00:30:39,120
whatever that is or somehow a more

645
00:30:46,460 --> 00:30:42,300
benign position that some deniers take I

646
00:30:49,700 --> 00:30:46,470
don't know how seriously but that unless

647
00:30:53,780 --> 00:30:49,710
we have carbon sources of energy we will

648
00:30:55,340 --> 00:30:53,790
not be able to to lift up the the poor

649
00:30:58,210 --> 00:30:55,350
and downtrodden and the people who are

650
00:31:02,110 --> 00:30:58,220
hungry and sick and and so forth around

651
00:31:03,850 --> 00:31:02,120
well you know if you can assuage those

652
00:31:06,279 --> 00:31:03,860
concerns whatever they are but they are

653
00:31:07,779 --> 00:31:06,289
ideologically based and you have to

654
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:07,789
assuage those concerns before the

655
00:31:13,330 --> 00:31:10,570
science even gets listen to yeah yeah

656
00:31:15,190 --> 00:31:13,340
once you get people to get the fingers

657
00:31:17,470 --> 00:31:15,200
out of the years sufficiently to listen

658
00:31:19,210 --> 00:31:17,480
to the science then you got a really

659
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:19,220
good chance because the science is under

660
00:31:25,210 --> 00:31:21,770
say there's no question that the science

661
00:31:28,510 --> 00:31:25,220
is on our side yeah yeah what again it's

662
00:31:31,270 --> 00:31:28,520
these two streams that you're fighting

663
00:31:33,070 --> 00:31:31,280
are so similar in so many ways it's

664
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:33,080
quite interesting that's why we took

665
00:31:42,549 --> 00:31:37,010
them out yeah yeah because they we were

666
00:31:46,299 --> 00:31:42,559
struck by how the ideological basis

667
00:31:48,460 --> 00:31:46,309
which undergirds the rejection of solid

668
00:31:50,770 --> 00:31:48,470
science with repercussions in the

669
00:31:55,029 --> 00:31:50,780
education system that kind of that the

670
00:31:56,940 --> 00:31:55,039
overarching framework there it was

671
00:31:59,500 --> 00:31:56,950
exactly the same for both the

672
00:32:02,409 --> 00:31:59,510
anti-evolution fight as well as the anti

673
00:32:04,299 --> 00:32:02,419
climate change fight and we felt that

674
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:04,309
our experience in dealing with these

675
00:32:09,549 --> 00:32:07,250
issues in the evolution context might be

676
00:32:10,930 --> 00:32:09,559
helpful in helping teachers deal with

677
00:32:16,029 --> 00:32:10,940
these issues and the climate change

678
00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:16,039
context what's in your your time and

679
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:17,840
this sort of we will get back to the

680
00:32:21,730 --> 00:32:19,330
original purpose which is the

681
00:32:24,909 --> 00:32:21,740
creationism what have been the biggest

682
00:32:27,610 --> 00:32:24,919
strides forward do you think the things

683
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:27,620
that that you know that it worked really

684
00:32:33,610 --> 00:32:31,450
well and something you can build on well

685
00:32:35,620 --> 00:32:33,620
realizing fairly early in the game

686
00:32:37,649 --> 00:32:35,630
actually the the structure of the

687
00:32:41,770 --> 00:32:37,659
arguments that are raised against us

688
00:32:43,390 --> 00:32:41,780
first of all attack the science the

689
00:32:45,940 --> 00:32:43,400
science is weak the science is not

690
00:32:48,039 --> 00:32:45,950
accepted by scientists you know this is

691
00:32:51,070 --> 00:32:48,049
all totally made out of Oh cloth but

692
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:51,080
you've got to deal with it the second

693
00:32:56,289 --> 00:32:53,570
argument being an ideological argument

694
00:32:58,720 --> 00:32:56,299
you cannot be a good fill in the blank

695
00:33:00,340 --> 00:32:58,730
and still accept fill in the blank yeah

696
00:33:02,260 --> 00:33:00,350
you cannot be a good Republican without

697
00:33:03,399 --> 00:33:02,270
rejecting climate change you cannot be a

698
00:33:07,270 --> 00:33:03,409
good Christian without rejecting

699
00:33:10,659 --> 00:33:07,280
evolution and this dichotomous reasoning

700
00:33:12,970 --> 00:33:10,669
is what has been so toxic to

701
00:33:14,379 --> 00:33:12,980
you getting evolution accepted you know

702
00:33:15,789 --> 00:33:14,389
again if people think they're going to

703
00:33:17,830 --> 00:33:15,799
lose really big I've got to give up my

704
00:33:19,599 --> 00:33:17,840
faith in order to accept your science no

705
00:33:22,210 --> 00:33:19,609
way because my faith is really important

706
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:22,220
to me and that's the way people so what

707
00:33:28,169 --> 00:33:25,850
you have to do is is present them with

708
00:33:31,149 --> 00:33:28,179
people who are of their same ideological

709
00:33:33,369 --> 00:33:31,159
persuasion who do accept it so you break

710
00:33:35,109 --> 00:33:33,379
apart that dichotomy so that people are

711
00:33:37,060 --> 00:33:35,119
not thinking I have to be on one side of

712
00:33:39,519 --> 00:33:37,070
that line or another show people

713
00:33:41,619 --> 00:33:39,529
continua rather than dichotomies and

714
00:33:43,779 --> 00:33:41,629
we're doing that with the climate change

715
00:33:46,119 --> 00:33:43,789
thing as well there are Republicans who

716
00:33:50,379 --> 00:33:46,129
are green okay so it's a climate change

717
00:33:52,169 --> 00:33:50,389
they need to be made more their views

718
00:33:56,919 --> 00:33:52,179
need to be heard more frequently and

719
00:33:58,989 --> 00:33:56,929
then of course one position that

720
00:34:02,470 --> 00:33:58,999
resonates very strongly with Americans

721
00:34:04,180 --> 00:34:02,480
is the fairness idea well you know if

722
00:34:07,509 --> 00:34:04,190
you teach this just be fair and teach

723
00:34:09,309 --> 00:34:07,519
the other one and of course that's great

724
00:34:11,619 --> 00:34:09,319
one to come you know let all sides be

725
00:34:14,950 --> 00:34:11,629
heard and that's great when it comes to

726
00:34:17,649 --> 00:34:14,960
opinions but you know don't confuse

727
00:34:19,450 --> 00:34:17,659
science with opinion it's not a matter

728
00:34:22,149 --> 00:34:19,460
of opinion whether the earth goes around

729
00:34:24,129 --> 00:34:22,159
the Sun or the Sun goes my mirror and we

730
00:34:27,669 --> 00:34:24,139
don't teach both opinions and in a

731
00:34:29,289 --> 00:34:27,679
fourth grade class yeah we teach what is

732
00:34:31,569 --> 00:34:29,299
accepted science and that's really what

733
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:31,579
we're doing the false balance yeah yes

734
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:36,169
falls in love because it's so normally

735
00:34:40,180 --> 00:34:37,970
wired into the culture but and it's so

736
00:34:42,129 --> 00:34:40,190
easy for media to do that if they want a

737
00:34:44,829 --> 00:34:42,139
copper story quickly the report all has

738
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:44,839
to ring up to opposing whatever freedom

739
00:34:50,169 --> 00:34:46,490
together faces and that's actually a

740
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:50,179
good thing I mean I I don't balance is

741
00:34:55,389 --> 00:34:53,210
important false balance yes is what you

742
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:55,399
have to watch right yeah and I mean if

743
00:34:58,990 --> 00:34:57,650
somebody says that this way is up you

744
00:35:00,730 --> 00:34:59,000
don't need to interview somebody else

745
00:35:02,799 --> 00:35:00,740
says this way you know the other

746
00:35:04,990 --> 00:35:02,809
direction is down hmm that's that's

747
00:35:08,319 --> 00:35:05,000
false balance yeah and you know

748
00:35:10,299 --> 00:35:08,329
basically when you get ninety-seven

749
00:35:11,829 --> 00:35:10,309
percent of the science community saying

750
00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:11,839
yeah living things share common

751
00:35:15,730 --> 00:35:13,730
ancestors you don't have to find those

752
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:15,740
two percent of the scientists who say no

753
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:18,410
they didn't when you have your spell did

754
00:35:23,860 --> 00:35:21,890
you hear they laughed at Galileo Oh

755
00:35:26,350 --> 00:35:23,870
laughter bozo the clown yes this is carl

756
00:35:28,510 --> 00:35:26,360
sagan said i love that he was so good

757
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:28,520
wasn't it yeah yeah I was what

758
00:35:33,070 --> 00:35:30,890
inspiration continuing inspiration to

759
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:33,080
look very much so and isn't it wonderful

760
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:35,690
that there's gonna be a new cosmos yeah

761
00:35:39,340 --> 00:35:37,610
renew Giroud about it for a while now

762
00:35:41,140 --> 00:35:39,350
looking forward to seeing you know when

763
00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:41,150
that goes I don't know when it's going

764
00:35:46,060 --> 00:35:43,730
to be released but I will be looking at

765
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:46,070
it very yeah with much interest and of

766
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:47,930
course I think what that will do also is

767
00:35:54,070 --> 00:35:51,650
maybe inspire people to blow off the old

768
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:54,080
videotapes that's good yeah I'm sure

769
00:35:57,460 --> 00:35:55,970
where I'm sure the original cosmos is

770
00:35:59,140 --> 00:35:57,470
online something I was just about to say

771
00:36:01,660 --> 00:35:59,150
just between you and me and thousands of

772
00:36:03,750 --> 00:36:01,670
listeners i think i think if you google

773
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:03,760
cosmos carl sagan you could probably

774
00:36:08,590 --> 00:36:06,530
find it so maybe find it somewhere I

775
00:36:11,260 --> 00:36:08,600
wonder if Netflix as it what if no you

776
00:36:12,940 --> 00:36:11,270
know I think they'd is streamed it dies

777
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:12,950
the map you guys think Netflix does

778
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:15,290
might might be necessary to do that yeah

779
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:16,970
I think well you mean get the new one

780
00:36:20,950 --> 00:36:18,890
the old one oh you're the old 1 i'm

781
00:36:22,810 --> 00:36:20,960
pretty sure that would be fun yeah if

782
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:22,820
then people can have easy access to it

783
00:36:29,350 --> 00:36:26,570
yeah oh well GD Scott next time I come

784
00:36:31,150 --> 00:36:29,360
to visit I guess I can interview your UK

785
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:31,160
least one and you know you can come by

786
00:36:37,090 --> 00:36:33,730
and visit me too I might make you buy

787
00:36:38,590 --> 00:36:37,100
that's the invitation I can't refuse GD

788
00:37:01,070 --> 00:36:38,600
Scott thanks very much it's so good to

789
00:37:07,970 --> 00:37:03,360
well here I am walking around the

790
00:37:09,750 --> 00:37:07,980
wonderful google campus area suburb

791
00:37:12,090 --> 00:37:09,760
subdivision whatever you'd like to call

792
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:12,100
it in California I'm with Chris Rock

793
00:37:17,460 --> 00:37:14,650
Chris today hey guy Richard fellow

794
00:37:20,100 --> 00:37:17,470
Aussie who's here in this area have it

795
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:20,110
always working walking this way and now

796
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:23,410
you drop me a note you heard I was going

797
00:37:26,850 --> 00:37:25,210
to be in the bay area because we

798
00:37:28,770 --> 00:37:26,860
correspond it a little while ago you

799
00:37:31,020 --> 00:37:28,780
were in Japan and you came across power

800
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:31,030
balance yes i did it was in a little way

801
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:34,810
off I think it was her adjucha and I saw

802
00:37:37,350 --> 00:37:35,890
a whole heap of them there there was

803
00:37:38,820 --> 00:37:37,360
power balance and a couple of others and

804
00:37:40,260 --> 00:37:38,830
I thought this is something Richard

805
00:37:42,660 --> 00:37:40,270
might like so I found your email address

806
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:42,670
and i sent you an email while i was

807
00:37:47,940 --> 00:37:45,970
still in tokyo and showed it to you yeah

808
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:47,950
yeah i remembers I remember seeing the

809
00:37:52,110 --> 00:37:50,650
photograph it's funny I've in a box at

810
00:37:53,730 --> 00:37:52,120
home and I don't know what I'm gonna do

811
00:37:56,730 --> 00:37:53,740
with it I've probably got the world's

812
00:37:59,670 --> 00:37:56,740
biggest collection of these devices from

813
00:38:01,260 --> 00:37:59,680
all around the world and I must say I'm

814
00:38:03,210 --> 00:38:01,270
walking around here in Google reminding

815
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:03,220
me that Google once had one I don't know

816
00:38:06,660 --> 00:38:04,810
if you knew that Google had a power

817
00:38:08,970 --> 00:38:06,670
ballad they had a band it's a google

818
00:38:10,410 --> 00:38:08,980
with a google local okay did that claim

819
00:38:12,870 --> 00:38:10,420
that it helped you with anything i hope

820
00:38:14,940 --> 00:38:12,880
not i don't think they did it hopefully

821
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:14,950
not it might have been probably just a

822
00:38:17,970 --> 00:38:16,810
fashion statement also with that bigger

823
00:38:20,010 --> 00:38:17,980
collection at home do you ever fall

824
00:38:24,210 --> 00:38:20,020
either you ever stumble no it's

825
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:24,220
remarkable I'm in fact I can't fall over

826
00:38:27,750 --> 00:38:26,410
at all it everything's a breeze I've got

827
00:38:30,990 --> 00:38:27,760
more power and strength than the whole

828
00:38:34,350 --> 00:38:31,000
planet combiner but now that's quite an

829
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:34,360
interesting story that hole how will

830
00:38:37,590 --> 00:38:35,650
just show you about it before because

831
00:38:39,780 --> 00:38:37,600
you really don't see them around

832
00:38:42,090 --> 00:38:39,790
although you can still find them yeah I

833
00:38:43,950 --> 00:38:42,100
saw some over here there was in sports

834
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:43,960
store there was a big range of them I

835
00:38:46,860 --> 00:38:45,250
don't know if power balance was one of

836
00:38:48,450 --> 00:38:46,870
them but there was certainly at the

837
00:38:50,940 --> 00:38:48,460
front there waiting for people to buy

838
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:50,950
them yeah so would you were in Japan you

839
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:51,490
see

840
00:38:55,230 --> 00:38:53,530
came across these they would power

841
00:38:57,630 --> 00:38:55,240
balance so what know where that were

842
00:38:59,390 --> 00:38:57,640
power balance they were in English so I

843
00:39:02,070 --> 00:38:59,400
think they were straight imports ah

844
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:02,080
right do you recall when you were there

845
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:04,090
seeing like other knock offs or copies

846
00:39:06,990 --> 00:39:05,530
or similar sort of thing yes they were

847
00:39:08,550 --> 00:39:07,000
along with them there were a couple of

848
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:08,560
other brands I don't remember what they

849
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:10,690
were I think they were all in English I

850
00:39:15,300 --> 00:39:12,610
don't think the Japanese maybe had their

851
00:39:18,170 --> 00:39:15,310
own interesting interesting because I've

852
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:18,180
not been to Japan since all 1969 answers

853
00:39:23,370 --> 00:39:20,770
yeah that's a while that's a while is /

854
00:39:25,500 --> 00:39:23,380
and I wonder how prevalent this sort of

855
00:39:28,350 --> 00:39:25,510
thinking is when you were in Japan did

856
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:28,360
you have many things that raised a

857
00:39:35,130 --> 00:39:32,410
skeptical eyebrow um not really there

858
00:39:37,109 --> 00:39:35,140
there's a lot of atheists over there I

859
00:39:39,620 --> 00:39:37,119
suppose there's a lot of temples my my

860
00:39:41,970 --> 00:39:39,630
wife is Japanese and she goes and praise

861
00:39:43,350 --> 00:39:41,980
sometimes like when there's a test

862
00:39:45,470 --> 00:39:43,360
coming up for a relative or something

863
00:39:47,550 --> 00:39:45,480
okay guys and get to one of those little

864
00:39:49,740 --> 00:39:47,560
scrolls and gives you talk to your

865
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:49,750
future all right but apart from that I

866
00:39:54,060 --> 00:39:50,890
think the Japanese are a fairly

867
00:39:56,510 --> 00:39:54,070
skeptical one yeah yeah that's good to

868
00:39:59,160 --> 00:39:56,520
know because I've recently heard of a

869
00:40:00,720 --> 00:39:59,170
Japanese skeptics society or is it Tokyo

870
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:00,730
skeptics in the pub something like that

871
00:40:04,230 --> 00:40:02,530
yeah yeah I think I heard of that when I

872
00:40:06,359 --> 00:40:04,240
was going over there I looked him up and

873
00:40:08,099 --> 00:40:06,369
I didn't manage to meet up with them but

874
00:40:11,220 --> 00:40:08,109
I think there are a few people over

875
00:40:12,870 --> 00:40:11,230
there who are the skeptical bent that's

876
00:40:16,170 --> 00:40:12,880
good to know it's because I was just too

877
00:40:17,730 --> 00:40:16,180
lovely day here it's a quite Barney for

878
00:40:19,530 --> 00:40:17,740
this time in the air to the middle of

879
00:40:24,500 --> 00:40:19,540
winter but it's lovely yeah just like

880
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:24,510
back home yeah almost not 40 degree

881
00:40:30,750 --> 00:40:26,890
thank goodness for that as we pass her

882
00:40:32,609 --> 00:40:30,760
another row of Google bicycles yeah

883
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:32,619
they're very good there are really get

884
00:40:36,150 --> 00:40:34,090
you around the campus as a lot of

885
00:40:37,380 --> 00:40:36,160
different buildings around here and it's

886
00:40:38,970 --> 00:40:37,390
nice to be able to hop on one and then

887
00:40:41,070 --> 00:40:38,980
hop off at the other end well Chris

888
00:40:44,910 --> 00:40:41,080
thank you very much for sparing some

889
00:40:47,550 --> 00:40:44,920
time you're very welcome and I wish you

890
00:41:00,460 --> 00:40:47,560
every future success thank you very much

891
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:03,190
hi I'm Finn and I'm Rebecca and where

892
00:41:07,089 --> 00:41:05,330
the skipper cons skipper Collins is an

893
00:41:08,770 --> 00:41:07,099
Irish podcast by the Dublin skeptics

894
00:41:10,330 --> 00:41:08,780
society it takes a conversational

895
00:41:11,589 --> 00:41:10,340
reverent look at science news and

896
00:41:15,099 --> 00:41:11,599
skeptical topics from an Irish

897
00:41:20,350 --> 00:41:15,109
perspective you can find us at WWDC

898
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:22,820
and now here's a little bit of news

899
00:41:29,510 --> 00:41:26,730
about the impending visit of dr. Simon

900
00:41:31,870 --> 00:41:29,520
Singh to Australia Simon's going to be

901
00:41:35,630 --> 00:41:31,880
speaking around the country including

902
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:35,640
Sydney on Saturday the 11th of January

903
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:38,970
at five pm at the crown hotel The

904
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:42,170
Simpsons and their mathematical secrets

905
00:41:48,410 --> 00:41:45,090
Simon Singh best-selling author of

906
00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:48,420
thermos Last Theorem and the codebook

907
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:50,250
that's a really good book i tellya the

908
00:41:54,530 --> 00:41:52,410
codebook it's fantastic we'll discuss

909
00:41:56,900 --> 00:41:54,540
his latest book The Simpsons and their

910
00:41:59,300 --> 00:41:56,910
mathematical secrets you can find out

911
00:42:02,090 --> 00:41:59,310
more by visiting the Australian skeptics

912
00:42:05,060 --> 00:42:02,100
Sydney skeptics in the pub meet up and

913
00:42:08,090 --> 00:42:05,070
not long after that on the 17th of

914
00:42:12,020 --> 00:42:08,100
January at 4pm at the Japan theatre

915
00:42:15,170 --> 00:42:12,030
Questacon in Canberra Simon will be also

916
00:42:17,750 --> 00:42:15,180
giving that talk the simpsons and their

917
00:42:21,410 --> 00:42:17,760
mathematical secrets and you can find

918
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:21,420
out more about that visit by googling

919
00:42:27,110 --> 00:42:24,570
canberra skeptics Canberra skeptics are

920
00:42:29,420 --> 00:42:27,120
also having a BBQ and a free screening

921
00:42:33,020 --> 00:42:29,430
of flock of dodos on sunday the

922
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:33,030
nineteenth of january from one to three

923
00:42:38,210 --> 00:42:35,280
o'clock and that will also be the

924
00:42:46,190 --> 00:42:38,220
Questacon google Canberra skeptics for

925
00:42:47,660 --> 00:42:46,200
more information here's may not spooky

926
00:42:51,620 --> 00:42:47,670
action

927
00:42:55,349 --> 00:42:53,760
of course everyone's talking about

928
00:42:56,820 --> 00:42:55,359
conspiracies but a conspiracy that I was

929
00:42:57,900 --> 00:42:56,830
calling for years of course and no one

930
00:43:00,750 --> 00:42:57,910
ever listened to me was the fact that

931
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:00,760
the NSA was spying on people even have

932
00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:02,890
floated this one with Steve how I am

933
00:43:06,870 --> 00:43:04,960
your cryptology is your thing isn't it

934
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:06,880
it was yeah I've retired now that I was

935
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:08,890
I was a code breaker in my time and I'm

936
00:43:13,290 --> 00:43:11,530
in peacetime this was another yeah I

937
00:43:15,329 --> 00:43:13,300
remember I was saying to you I was

938
00:43:17,099 --> 00:43:15,339
pretty I had to be pretty sure the NSA

939
00:43:18,450 --> 00:43:17,109
could crack any code anywhere and you

940
00:43:20,849 --> 00:43:18,460
were saying that no matter how good you

941
00:43:23,070 --> 00:43:20,859
are you can't always do that now most of

942
00:43:24,900 --> 00:43:23,080
the codes are not crackable I mean the

943
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:24,910
people who design codes of even sharp

944
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:26,410
and the people who in fact them so the

945
00:43:30,030 --> 00:43:28,570
you can't crack the codes so is the case

946
00:43:31,980 --> 00:43:30,040
that the NSA has got this by using

947
00:43:33,540 --> 00:43:31,990
backdoor means rather than brute force

948
00:43:35,099 --> 00:43:33,550
cracking there's all sorts of ways of

949
00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:35,109
cheating like you planted bugs in the

950
00:43:39,300 --> 00:43:37,089
code machines or you bug the keyboard

951
00:43:41,490 --> 00:43:39,310
the people type on or you you've been to

952
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:41,500
room upstairs they move it the room

953
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:43,930
above the embassy and listen for noises

954
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:47,530
you know people conversation everybody

955
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:49,810
cheats all the time this is that the

956
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:51,130
book put them the most bleeding obvious

957
00:43:54,599 --> 00:43:52,810
things it's the pyramids were built you

958
00:43:57,420 --> 00:43:54,609
know everybody spies and everybody else

959
00:43:59,099 --> 00:43:57,430
all the time and you shouldn't get

960
00:44:01,650 --> 00:43:59,109
caught but people do you know and

961
00:44:03,270 --> 00:44:01,660
there's famous incidents of sort of

962
00:44:05,070 --> 00:44:03,280
think the Russians crashed a submarine

963
00:44:07,260 --> 00:44:05,080
on the coast of Sweden in under an 81

964
00:44:09,300 --> 00:44:07,270
and what what really annoys the Swedes

965
00:44:11,339 --> 00:44:09,310
was it was a very old and a scruffy

966
00:44:13,620 --> 00:44:11,349
submarine and they were going to be

967
00:44:15,020 --> 00:44:13,630
spied on by a more dignified submarine

968
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:15,030
than that one

969
00:44:19,460 --> 00:44:16,770
and but what do you think is the

970
00:44:21,530 --> 00:44:19,470
simplest and most effective code you've

971
00:44:25,270 --> 00:44:21,540
heard of in all your years of cryptology

972
00:44:27,650 --> 00:44:25,280
a lot to kill you if I told you that

973
00:44:29,420 --> 00:44:27,660
because sometimes the simple ones are

974
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:29,430
amazingly effective amp they are the

975
00:44:32,300 --> 00:44:30,810
most simple ones are the most effective

976
00:44:34,940 --> 00:44:32,310
if you make it more complicated like a

977
00:44:36,980 --> 00:44:34,950
bulk cedral you open up more chinks in

978
00:44:40,010 --> 00:44:36,990
it you know there's going to be a good

979
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:40,020
design but actually I'm oh all modern

980
00:44:47,420 --> 00:44:42,450
commercial codes are pretty safe RSA in

981
00:44:49,490 --> 00:44:47,430
Triple D Azur safe eh ESS safe the best

982
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:49,500
code for view and I'd assault with is a

983
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:52,770
jargon code where you you don't talk

984
00:44:56,270 --> 00:44:54,690
about cocaine you talk about sugar or

985
00:44:57,830 --> 00:44:56,280
something you know all right have you

986
00:45:01,160 --> 00:44:57,840
got that packet of sugar from Colombia i

987
00:45:02,660 --> 00:45:01,170
sent you had a non a minute columbia

988
00:45:04,670 --> 00:45:02,670
isn't a sugar exporting nation people

989
00:45:07,340 --> 00:45:04,680
say I didn't mean can be i'm in time in

990
00:45:09,950 --> 00:45:07,350
some afghanistan no no no no go back on

991
00:45:11,540 --> 00:45:09,960
that even worse if a job and co where

992
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:11,550
you just agree that would be in other

993
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:13,290
words and nobody can crack that if you

994
00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:15,690
do it well and what do you think will be

995
00:45:19,970 --> 00:45:17,520
the most interesting conspiracy that

996
00:45:22,340 --> 00:45:19,980
will be brought to light here while

997
00:45:25,190 --> 00:45:22,350
we're in canberra this weekend water

998
00:45:26,540 --> 00:45:25,200
life yeah ivan brought to lie i mean is

999
00:45:27,500 --> 00:45:26,550
it one conspiracy you find very

1000
00:45:31,220 --> 00:45:27,510
interesting you're hoping they might

1001
00:45:33,110 --> 00:45:31,230
talk about oh yeah love so you're hiding

1002
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:33,120
figures on climate change probably over

1003
00:45:36,860 --> 00:45:34,410
that's some of the ones begin to be

1004
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:36,870
discovered in that he wants to find that

1005
00:45:41,060 --> 00:45:39,450
and there's a danger here if you want to

1006
00:45:43,700 --> 00:45:41,070
find something there you will find it if

1007
00:45:45,590 --> 00:45:43,710
you will enough numbers you know what

1008
00:45:46,940 --> 00:45:45,600
about a conspiracy that appears to be

1009
00:45:49,490 --> 00:45:46,950
lacking in evidence that you personally

1010
00:45:51,370 --> 00:45:49,500
wouldn't mind if it was true Oh a free

1011
00:45:54,940 --> 00:45:51,380
beer the fee beer plot or something

1012
00:45:57,249 --> 00:45:54,950
you know how much more popular would Guy

1013
00:45:59,079 --> 00:45:57,259
Fawkes be if he'd had a free beer plot

1014
00:46:02,529 --> 00:45:59,089
instead of gunpowder he'd be even more

1015
00:46:03,759 --> 00:46:02,539
famous only way a guy fawkes had a you

1016
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:03,769
know he had the most brilliant ideas

1017
00:46:08,019 --> 00:46:05,450
anybody was in the same place you say

1018
00:46:09,910 --> 00:46:08,029
you had to all the whole house of

1019
00:46:12,309 --> 00:46:09,920
commons the whole house of lords the

1020
00:46:15,309 --> 00:46:12,319
monarch all the bishops all the lords

1021
00:46:17,740 --> 00:46:15,319
everybody in one place you just cried

1022
00:46:19,509 --> 00:46:17,750
out for a bit of gunpowder and hit a

1023
00:46:21,849 --> 00:46:19,519
secure the locks in he had the gunpowder

1024
00:46:23,319 --> 00:46:21,859
and he didn't do it and I've i betchu it

1025
00:46:24,849 --> 00:46:23,329
as he was being drawn in quarter you

1026
00:46:26,380 --> 00:46:24,859
probably wish you Jesus maybe I should

1027
00:46:27,249 --> 00:46:26,390
have gone early on that one you should

1028
00:46:28,980 --> 00:46:27,259
have gone that you're the day before

1029
00:46:31,539 --> 00:46:28,990
would have been really good you know

1030
00:46:34,029 --> 00:46:31,549
have a good time here and what do you

1031
00:46:36,069 --> 00:46:34,039
look credible in what way is the camera

1032
00:46:38,589 --> 00:46:36,079
convention got a different feel this is

1033
00:46:40,269 --> 00:46:38,599
a very good venue it's inside csiro it's

1034
00:46:42,490 --> 00:46:40,279
built for education it's got good

1035
00:46:43,749 --> 00:46:42,500
facilities and good meeting room good

1036
00:46:46,269 --> 00:46:43,759
coffee or everything laid out very

1037
00:46:48,220 --> 00:46:46,279
accessible maybe advice and cheerful and

1038
00:46:51,549 --> 00:46:48,230
not at all like that sort of dreaming

1039
00:46:53,140 --> 00:46:51,559
lecture halls on my youth obviously so

1040
00:46:55,420 --> 00:46:53,150
it's a lovely venue and the people of

1041
00:46:57,460 --> 00:46:55,430
vibrant you know a lot of guys here from

1042
00:46:59,410 --> 00:46:57,470
Melbourne and Sydney the Melbourne ones

1043
00:47:01,210 --> 00:46:59,420
are especially exciting people and in

1044
00:47:05,289 --> 00:47:01,220
for a certain jealous a quarter you

1045
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:05,299
myself example and yeah awesome all over

1046
00:47:08,470 --> 00:47:06,650
the place in a look at you in your in

1047
00:47:10,029 --> 00:47:08,480
your Melbourne fashionable shirt lording

1048
00:47:13,029 --> 00:47:10,039
it over us that's right in the short

1049
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:13,039
trousers I it's sunny 1c every year in

1050
00:47:17,769 --> 00:47:16,130
Melbourne is sunnier well talking

1051
00:47:19,779 --> 00:47:17,779
talking talking now a lot of that goes

1052
00:47:21,069 --> 00:47:19,789
on here at the National skeptics

1053
00:47:23,380 --> 00:47:21,079
conference it's it's just after

1054
00:47:25,390 --> 00:47:23,390
afternoon tea on saturday and i'm here

1055
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:25,400
with the poet laureate now what are we

1056
00:47:28,930 --> 00:47:26,930
doing with the poet laureate with the

1057
00:47:30,999 --> 00:47:28,940
skeptics mean really I mean art poetry

1058
00:47:32,049 --> 00:47:31,009
science they're not good bedfellows in

1059
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:32,059
fact it would be a threesome if they

1060
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:33,170
were through them anyway that's a bad

1061
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:35,690
metaphor hello hello what's your

1062
00:47:40,210 --> 00:47:38,210
official title in name my name is

1063
00:47:42,819 --> 00:47:40,220
Shelley stockin and I am the poet in

1064
00:47:45,249 --> 00:47:42,829
residence at the skeptics convention you

1065
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:45,259
live in their Clubhouse no no they let

1066
00:47:50,009 --> 00:47:48,410
me out occasionally meal times but I

1067
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:50,019
because I have no scientific

1068
00:47:55,269 --> 00:47:52,130
qualifications and can't pronounce most

1069
00:47:57,099 --> 00:47:55,279
of the words I am I just write in rhyme

1070
00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:57,109
that's the skill I bring I've got

1071
00:47:59,190 --> 00:47:57,490
nothing

1072
00:48:00,840 --> 00:47:59,200
else look the only big word i know is

1073
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:00,850
transubstantiation and that's not very

1074
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:04,210
scientific no no not that I'm aware of I

1075
00:48:10,530 --> 00:48:08,160
know how to say yummy wafers and trans

1076
00:48:11,700 --> 00:48:10,540
substantive it that's good now you've

1077
00:48:13,230 --> 00:48:11,710
done a couple of poems and they've all

1078
00:48:15,390 --> 00:48:13,240
been received very well by the audience

1079
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:15,400
there did you were these ones of a pre

1080
00:48:20,310 --> 00:48:16,890
done or did you choose some particular

1081
00:48:21,750 --> 00:48:20,320
skeptical based topics well I I was a

1082
00:48:23,370 --> 00:48:21,760
little bit of a stalker of some of the

1083
00:48:25,770 --> 00:48:23,380
speakers and asked what the topics would

1084
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:25,780
be before the program came out so I had

1085
00:48:30,990 --> 00:48:28,930
an idea because they they might take 10

1086
00:48:33,210 --> 00:48:31,000
seconds to deliver but they take me two

1087
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:33,220
or three weeks to write around you know

1088
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:35,410
living and working in that sort of thing

1089
00:48:39,180 --> 00:48:37,690
that the one you just delivered then was

1090
00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:39,190
a title I don't know what was that

1091
00:48:44,010 --> 00:48:41,040
called was called the I don't know hole

1092
00:48:45,990 --> 00:48:44,020
it talks about when we don't know the

1093
00:48:49,410 --> 00:48:46,000
answer to something humans tend to fill

1094
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:49,420
it with absolute chart and so it was and

1095
00:48:54,990 --> 00:48:51,130
that's why we have paranormal beliefs

1096
00:48:56,820 --> 00:48:55,000
and and you know think conspiracy

1097
00:48:59,340 --> 00:48:56,830
theories that they come up because we we

1098
00:49:01,380 --> 00:48:59,350
can't stand not to know the answer to

1099
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:01,390
something so we make one up as a poet

1100
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:03,130
you've obviously worked to a wide range

1101
00:49:06,690 --> 00:49:04,690
of audiences one of these skeptical

1102
00:49:08,670 --> 00:49:06,700
audience like to work to as a reading

1103
00:49:11,790 --> 00:49:08,680
poetry there they tough crowd now

1104
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:11,800
they're quite good because I I've sort

1105
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:15,490
of been brought up skeptical I know what

1106
00:49:20,370 --> 00:49:17,530
makes people nod their heads in this

1107
00:49:22,980 --> 00:49:20,380
crowd and hopefully giggle at the right

1108
00:49:25,830 --> 00:49:22,990
spots so I find this crowd quite good

1109
00:49:27,810 --> 00:49:25,840
when I read to other poets they're not

1110
00:49:29,460 --> 00:49:27,820
not as interested let's face it other

1111
00:49:31,230 --> 00:49:29,470
poets are just there to do their poem

1112
00:49:33,990 --> 00:49:31,240
and then bugger off home yes well that's

1113
00:49:36,660 --> 00:49:34,000
partly why I'm here but no now what is

1114
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:36,670
your favourite conspiracy that despite

1115
00:49:42,420 --> 00:49:38,290
lack of evidence you really wish was

1116
00:49:44,340 --> 00:49:42,430
true I like Kim trails but I think

1117
00:49:46,830 --> 00:49:44,350
they're hilarious I don't necessarily

1118
00:49:48,220 --> 00:49:46,840
wish they were true except then I would

1119
00:49:50,650 --> 00:49:48,230
know

1120
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:50,660
how the hell people think that claims

1121
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:53,530
can spray us with with nefarious things

1122
00:49:59,710 --> 00:49:57,410
but I also one that I came up that came

1123
00:50:02,680 --> 00:49:59,720
across with with currants day this

1124
00:50:04,630 --> 00:50:02,690
morning was the prepper movement so no

1125
00:50:07,470 --> 00:50:04,640
matter what the conspiracy that brings

1126
00:50:11,349 --> 00:50:07,480
the world to its end these people who

1127
00:50:13,990 --> 00:50:11,359
they stockpile guns and food and and

1128
00:50:17,349 --> 00:50:14,000
very strange armored vehicles to deal

1129
00:50:19,450 --> 00:50:17,359
with with other people when the world

1130
00:50:21,190 --> 00:50:19,460
comes to an end I've interviewed a

1131
00:50:22,750 --> 00:50:21,200
pepper on the on the planet Maynard

1132
00:50:25,240 --> 00:50:22,760
podcast who was actually on the show

1133
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:25,250
Preppers and he explained that I said

1134
00:50:27,790 --> 00:50:26,690
how can you live life like that when he

1135
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:27,800
said that's a very odd thing for you to

1136
00:50:31,900 --> 00:50:30,530
say because he said an emergency could

1137
00:50:33,849 --> 00:50:31,910
happen at any time it might not be a

1138
00:50:35,500 --> 00:50:33,859
planetary one like some of us prepare

1139
00:50:37,359 --> 00:50:35,510
for but he says when he takes his kids

1140
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:37,369
out to prepare he's basically taking

1141
00:50:40,990 --> 00:50:39,050
them camping him and learning skills

1142
00:50:42,490 --> 00:50:41,000
that they can use for other things so

1143
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:42,500
I'd say that would be their defense to a

1144
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:44,240
certain extent obviously if you got the

1145
00:50:47,650 --> 00:50:46,160
entire house full of things that's

1146
00:50:49,450 --> 00:50:47,660
probably impacting on your lifestyle a

1147
00:50:52,510 --> 00:50:49,460
bit but you do learn some vital skills

1148
00:50:54,930 --> 00:50:52,520
in in prepping that's true it reminds me

1149
00:50:58,330 --> 00:50:54,940
a little bit of boy scouts but with guns

1150
00:51:00,370 --> 00:50:58,340
but personally if if I thought the world

1151
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:00,380
was going to come to an end the money

1152
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:02,090
that Preppers spend on being prepped I

1153
00:51:06,670 --> 00:51:04,130
probably just put just a few really nice

1154
00:51:08,349 --> 00:51:06,680
substances and blow my head off okay

1155
00:51:09,849 --> 00:51:08,359
yeah I was going to suggest this to the

1156
00:51:11,530 --> 00:51:09,859
prepper but I got a feeling that you

1157
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:11,540
know that's not what wouldn't go on well

1158
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:12,770
with him I thought well you look I mean

1159
00:51:15,490 --> 00:51:14,210
that might be okay for you mate but I

1160
00:51:19,180 --> 00:51:15,500
can't live in a tent at the best of

1161
00:51:21,910 --> 00:51:19,190
times and maybe I just I just prefer to

1162
00:51:23,710 --> 00:51:21,920
spend my money on fun things yeah I

1163
00:51:25,300 --> 00:51:23,720
could go with that speaking of fun

1164
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:25,310
things here that left a lot of those

1165
00:51:29,530 --> 00:51:27,410
pre-wrapped biscuits here after the

1166
00:51:31,240 --> 00:51:29,540
afternoon tea haven't they yes maybe

1167
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:31,250
they're preparing for dinner just not

1168
00:51:35,740 --> 00:51:33,170
feeling up tummies yeah I think I might

1169
00:51:37,060 --> 00:51:35,750
I might do some prepping myself and leg

1170
00:51:38,770 --> 00:51:37,070
off with about a dozen of these biscuits

1171
00:51:39,910 --> 00:51:38,780
and I'll be right oh hang on one of the

1172
00:51:41,620 --> 00:51:39,920
controversial questions I have been

1173
00:51:43,690 --> 00:51:41,630
asking people as it is a doctor who

1174
00:51:45,490 --> 00:51:43,700
themed dinner this evening who do you

1175
00:51:48,190 --> 00:51:45,500
think would go down in your opinion as

1176
00:51:49,610 --> 00:51:48,200
your opinion only as the unpopular

1177
00:51:51,990 --> 00:51:49,620
doctor

1178
00:51:54,540 --> 00:51:52,000
well I haven't actually watched Doctor

1179
00:51:58,410 --> 00:51:54,550
Who since the 70s I have you heard it

1180
00:52:00,810 --> 00:51:58,420
here first so I can hardly I know that

1181
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:00,820
my favorite is even will always be Tom

1182
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:04,170
Baker so I'm you anyone before or after

1183
00:52:08,490 --> 00:52:06,730
although david tennant for different

1184
00:52:12,210 --> 00:52:08,500
reasons oh ok just because of eye candy

1185
00:52:14,010 --> 00:52:12,220
oh ok he'd be the popular on for you for

1186
00:52:15,330 --> 00:52:14,020
me yeah he meant Tom Baker right okay

1187
00:52:17,220 --> 00:52:15,340
but the say you couldn't put you

1188
00:52:19,110 --> 00:52:17,230
couldn't put your finger on an unpopular

1189
00:52:21,090 --> 00:52:19,120
doctor so look I've been trying to get a

1190
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:21,100
vote going for Colin Baker not because I

1191
00:52:26,460 --> 00:52:23,410
was a nice guy but I think his doctor

1192
00:52:28,620 --> 00:52:26,470
was a fairly an unusual one I'll just

1193
00:52:31,230 --> 00:52:28,630
not if it I know that doesn't work on a

1194
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:31,240
podcast I just know she's been with

1195
00:52:33,900 --> 00:52:32,770
skeptics in this science bunch long

1196
00:52:36,150 --> 00:52:33,910
enough to know that if she doesn't know

1197
00:52:37,470 --> 00:52:36,160
what's going on just nod that's right

1198
00:52:39,540 --> 00:52:37,480
and it works with your auntie and uncle

1199
00:52:40,890 --> 00:52:39,550
too that's right i'm actually staying

1200
00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:40,900
with my auntie here in Canberra I might

1201
00:53:01,829 --> 00:53:00,180
hey this is jay novella from the

1202
00:53:03,750 --> 00:53:01,839
skeptics guide to the universe podcast

1203
00:53:05,579 --> 00:53:03,760
did you know that there are thousands of

1204
00:53:07,319 --> 00:53:05,589
skeptical reports interviews and

1205
00:53:10,020 --> 00:53:07,329
investigations going back to nineteen

1206
00:53:13,290 --> 00:53:10,030
eighty one free to download just visit w

1207
00:53:15,210 --> 00:53:13,300
WC optics com a you click the

1208
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:15,220
publications link and enjoy almost every

1209
00:53:19,109 --> 00:53:17,170
back issue of the skeptic the journal

1210
00:53:20,670 --> 00:53:19,119
from Australian skeptics you can also

1211
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:20,680
subscribe online and get the latest

1212
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:22,960
digital or hard copy of this the world's

1213
00:53:28,650 --> 00:53:24,970
second oldest skeptical magazine that's

1214
00:53:37,829 --> 00:53:28,660
ww skeptics com au or just google

1215
00:53:39,990 --> 00:53:37,839
Australian skeptics in this week's a

1216
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:40,000
week in science guest host robert

1217
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:41,890
Llewellyn better known as Crichton from

1218
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:44,290
Red Dwarf talks with Peter Putney from

1219
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:46,210
the University of South Australia about

1220
00:53:53,250 --> 00:53:51,010
Trev the world beating electric car Trev

1221
00:53:54,900 --> 00:53:53,260
was built by a very talented team at the

1222
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:54,910
University of South Australia led by

1223
00:53:58,500 --> 00:53:56,890
this extremely talented man Peter pudney

1224
00:53:59,880 --> 00:53:58,510
so Peter can you tell me what the

1225
00:54:02,010 --> 00:53:59,890
original sort of motivation was for

1226
00:54:04,319 --> 00:54:02,020
building this yeah we used to build

1227
00:54:06,750 --> 00:54:04,329
solar racing cars that race from Darwin

1228
00:54:08,190 --> 00:54:06,760
to Adelaide across Australia yeah and we

1229
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:08,200
figured if we could drive from Darwin to

1230
00:54:11,130 --> 00:54:09,970
a blade without using petrol we should

1231
00:54:13,589 --> 00:54:11,140
be able get to work and back with in

1232
00:54:14,849 --> 00:54:13,599
using petrol right we wanted a car that

1233
00:54:17,099 --> 00:54:14,859
we could use all the time for just

1234
00:54:19,290 --> 00:54:17,109
driving around town that didn't use

1235
00:54:20,609 --> 00:54:19,300
fossil fuels right and so I mean tell

1236
00:54:22,230 --> 00:54:20,619
just go through a few of the things

1237
00:54:24,420 --> 00:54:22,240
because I've driven a few electric cars

1238
00:54:26,370 --> 00:54:24,430
I've never driven one like this it's

1239
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:26,380
slightly different so I mean in terms of

1240
00:54:30,180 --> 00:54:28,930
batteries and range and all those things

1241
00:54:31,290 --> 00:54:30,190
I mean what what are the batteries that

1242
00:54:33,150 --> 00:54:31,300
you've used it so it's a lithium-ion

1243
00:54:35,190 --> 00:54:33,160
polymer battery about 80 kilograms and

1244
00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:35,200
it's got a range of over 200 kilometers

1245
00:54:38,910 --> 00:54:37,359
wow that's really good that's a very

1246
00:54:40,349 --> 00:54:38,920
healthy range i mean there's quite a lot

1247
00:54:41,430 --> 00:54:40,359
of commercially available electric

1248
00:54:43,589 --> 00:54:41,440
vehicles that haven't got that kind of

1249
00:54:45,359 --> 00:54:43,599
rain yeah and the secret is it's 300

1250
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:45,369
kilograms all up for the car so it

1251
00:54:48,809 --> 00:54:47,050
doesn't take a lot of energy to push it

1252
00:54:51,390 --> 00:54:48,819
along the road and what sort of speeds

1253
00:54:53,099 --> 00:54:51,400
does it you know is it road legal it

1254
00:54:54,870 --> 00:54:53,109
clear on roads it's road legal it will

1255
00:54:56,309 --> 00:54:54,880
drive at normal ride speed sorry top

1256
00:54:58,109 --> 00:54:56,319
speed is over a hundred kilometres now

1257
00:55:00,510 --> 00:54:58,119
right so Peter I'm intrigued by the

1258
00:55:02,460 --> 00:55:00,520
design because it's I think I think it's

1259
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:02,470
very unusual not what people are used to

1260
00:55:06,660 --> 00:55:05,530
with cars three wheels and then

1261
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:06,670
the passages sitting behind the driver

1262
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:08,530
and one can you explain why those

1263
00:55:11,670 --> 00:55:09,970
decisions were made there were two

1264
00:55:13,830 --> 00:55:11,680
reasons for that really first is we knew

1265
00:55:16,470 --> 00:55:13,840
that it had to be lightweight and it had

1266
00:55:17,910 --> 00:55:16,480
to be aerodynamic so having the the

1267
00:55:19,140 --> 00:55:17,920
dryer of having the passenger behind the

1268
00:55:21,810 --> 00:55:19,150
driver means that we can get good

1269
00:55:23,490 --> 00:55:21,820
aerodynamics three wheels if you've got

1270
00:55:25,050 --> 00:55:23,500
two wheels it will fall over if you've

1271
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:25,060
got four you've got more weight and more

1272
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:26,890
complexity than you need and does and so

1273
00:55:31,020 --> 00:55:29,050
having one person behind the other

1274
00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:31,030
basically means that the bit that's

1275
00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:33,730
pushing into the wind is reduced you can

1276
00:55:37,530 --> 00:55:35,920
keep that now yeah and it also it gives

1277
00:55:39,660 --> 00:55:37,540
the driver a really good view of the

1278
00:55:41,790 --> 00:55:39,670
road there's no a-pillars yeah most of

1279
00:55:43,230 --> 00:55:41,800
the time most people driving in in

1280
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:43,240
Australia have just one person in the

1281
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:45,370
car yes going to working back so we

1282
00:55:48,090 --> 00:55:46,570
don't often use the back seat but it's

1283
00:55:49,650 --> 00:55:48,100
there in case you're right and I mean

1284
00:55:50,970 --> 00:55:49,660
what else have you done with it so since

1285
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:50,980
you built it and presumably haven't just

1286
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:53,170
driven it around the campus we've done

1287
00:55:57,030 --> 00:55:54,810
very little driving around the campus we

1288
00:55:58,800 --> 00:55:57,040
the students that build it actually took

1289
00:56:01,020 --> 00:55:58,810
it to Darwin and drove it from Darwin to

1290
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:01,030
a blade demonstration class and the

1291
00:56:04,020 --> 00:56:02,890
world solar challenge once we've done

1292
00:56:05,970 --> 00:56:04,030
that I got a phone call from someone

1293
00:56:07,500 --> 00:56:05,980
saying is it any good for long trips and

1294
00:56:09,330 --> 00:56:07,510
they showed me a map of the world could

1295
00:56:10,530 --> 00:56:09,340
we drive it around the world before I

1296
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:10,540
thought about I said yeah we can do that

1297
00:56:15,870 --> 00:56:13,810
so we did we wow we drove it from Geneva

1298
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:15,880
headed east and basically kept driving

1299
00:56:19,170 --> 00:56:17,770
to pick up back to jeanette wow so this

1300
00:56:21,210 --> 00:56:19,180
car has been around the world it has

1301
00:56:23,610 --> 00:56:21,220
it's about 28,000 kilometers around

1302
00:56:25,830 --> 00:56:23,620
where we hope you enjoyed this special

1303
00:56:28,380 --> 00:56:25,840
episode of a week in science with guest

1304
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:28,390
host english actor robert Llewellyn to

1305
00:56:46,470 --> 00:56:30,850
see the film of robert driving trev go

1306
00:56:51,490 --> 00:56:49,030
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1307
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:51,500
zone and don't forget Simon Singh

1308
00:56:56,290 --> 00:56:53,690
visiting Australia speaking here there

1309
00:56:57,609 --> 00:56:56,300
and everywhere check the Australian

1310
00:56:59,920 --> 00:56:57,619
skeptics website and the Canberra

1311
00:57:02,380 --> 00:56:59,930
skeptics websites for details of the

1312
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:02,390
impending visit and talks by dr. Simon

1313
00:57:08,650 --> 00:57:05,690
Singh well worth well worth going to see

1314
00:57:10,630 --> 00:57:08,660
if you can make it and who knows there

1315
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:10,640
may even be an interview of dr. Simon

1316
00:57:18,599 --> 00:57:14,090
Singh soon on the skeptic zone well

1317
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:18,609
that's it I better zip up my suitcase

1318
00:57:24,670 --> 00:57:21,890
book that taxi and get ready to leave

1319
00:57:26,620 --> 00:57:24,680
back to Australia so for this week at

1320
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:26,630
least this is Richard Saunders signing

1321
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:28,810
off from the San Francisco Bay Area

1322
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:35,330
California you've been listening to the

1323
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:40,010
skeptic zone visit our website at www